Dialogue with Sun Yuchen: I don't think Jia Yueting is a fraud; running a company is my only hobby

Organized by: Deep Tide TechFlow

Brother Sun is always a hot topic in the crypto world.

From eye-catching remarks on social media to anecdotes from his personal life, every little detail piques everyone's curiosity.

Today, Hua Zong had a two-and-a-half-hour conversation with Sun Yuchen on his podcast "Open Talk," discussing topics ranging from his plans to invest in Jia Yueting's IP e-commerce company to interesting stories about coconut chicken from legends in the industry.

After obtaining authorization from Hua Zong, Deep Tide TechFlow has organized and edited the podcast content. Since the podcast contains a lot of colloquial content, we have distilled and condensed the key points to share with everyone, with some parts omitted.

To listen to the full audio, please click here: Vol. 01 This Time Sun Yuchen Didn't Stand Us Up

The following are the main contents of the podcast:

Hua Zong:

Hello everyone, I am Hua Zong, and welcome to "Open Talk." I hope to present more facets of stories and characters through this program. The guest interviewed in this episode is Sun Yuchen. I first met him about ten years ago when he had just returned to China to start a business and was quite inexperienced. Ten years later, he has become more famous and wealthier, and the controversies surrounding him have intensified. A few days ago, I met him in Hong Kong, and the following content comes from our two-and-a-half-hour conversation.

Why Invest in Jia Yueting

Hua Zong: The reason I came to talk to you today is that I saw an interaction between you and Teacher Jia a while ago. It can't really be called an interaction; it should be your unilateral statement that you plan to support him in establishing an IP company. Can you tell us about this?

Sun Yuchen:

Actually, I have been paying attention to Jia Yueting for quite a long time. I was an early and deep user of LeEco, whether it was LeEco phones, LeEco TVs, or the ride-hailing service he later acquired, Yidao. You could say I have used almost every product in the LeEco ecosystem, except for the LeEco car that he didn't manage to produce, and I was quite a heavy user.

At that time, I was working in the internet sector, and I felt that LeEco had many believers in China because it seemed to be the company most likely to become the Apple of A-shares. At that time, both institutional investors and retail investors had high expectations for LeEco.

Hua Zong: Why did you say LeEco would be like Apple? Was it because of the ecosystem concept that LeEco was promoting?

Sun Yuchen:

Yes, I think there are a few points. The first point is that the quality of internet companies listed on A-shares is generally not very high because many well-known companies cannot list in the mainland capital market due to structural issues.

At that time, the vast majority of companies, whether in terms of internet thinking or overall tone, could not compare to LeEco. LeEco was building a complete ecosystem like Apple; after starting from content and television, it intended to imitate Apple and Tesla, hoping to develop in areas like smartphones and electric vehicles. At that time, we felt that LeEco was the only company in the A-share capital market that had the resources to achieve such a thing.

LeEco's stock price was also very high at that time because mainstream institutions and investors believed in LeEco's story. LeEco's products were also quite good, but later many problems occurred. I think the biggest issue was the significant problem with resource allocation. For example, LeEco Sports spent 500 million to buy the broadcasting rights for the Premier League in Hong Kong, but later found out that they actually did not have the rights to broadcast the Premier League in Hong Kong.

Spending a Lot of Time Studying Others' Failures

Hua Zong: Do you think the problem with resource allocation is a strategic error or a tactical error?

Sun Yuchen: I personally think the strategy was correct, but there were many problems in tactical execution.

Hua Zong: Is it a decision-making issue or an execution issue?

Sun Yuchen: I actually think the top-level design was not a problem. Including today, Jia Yueting's top-level design has also been proven to be correct, including in the automotive sector. When LeEco started making cars, the main competitors in the domestic market were not yet on the scene. So I think their strategic thinking was very advanced, but in execution, whether in terms of timing or specific execution, resource misallocation was very serious. This kind of misallocation often occurs in traditional industries, and I study these things because I don't want to make such mistakes again.

Hua Zong: So you spend a lot of time studying the business stories and paths of all these people?

Sun Yuchen: Yes, I spend a lot of time studying. One important insight from Hupan University is that people outside of business like to study the successes of business, because everyone wants to see the successful side of businesspeople and study how they succeeded. But those who do business want to study how to fail, to avoid those failures, which is precisely a necessary factor for success. Just like football players focus on Messi and Ronaldo because they are very successful in football, but if you aspire to be like them, you should study what happened to those who were once geniuses but later fell from grace.

Ecosystem and Focus: Lessons Learned from LeEco

Hua Zong: What you refer to as focus actually means that ability and resources determine what you should do. You can see the peak over there, but if your stamina and oxygen tank are insufficient, you shouldn't rush to the top. Does this concept constantly remind you?

Sun Yuchen: Absolutely. Moreover, I think many people overlook that running a business is very similar to playing poker. Many people think that running a business means having a score of 100 and then trying hard to reach 100, and if they don't succeed, they still have 90 left. This understanding is completely wrong, especially in the internet industry. Our industry is winner takes all; when eight people play poker at the table, in the end, everyone will be wiped out. You need to think about how to become the winner, the one who takes all. LeEco should focus on its sub-ecosystems, making each one a winner before entering the next field. The internet inherently despises second place; if you can't be first, you'll soon be wiped out.

Hua Zong: ByteDance learned lessons from LeEco; can you elaborate?

Sun Yuchen: ByteDance has done very well in resource allocation and strategic focus. They invest a lot of resources in every field they enter to ensure success. For example, in the short video sector, they invested a lot more resources than their competitors. Just like Lin Biao during the Chinese Civil War, he liked to concentrate superior forces in local battles, so even if he was at a disadvantage overall, he could win in local battles. ByteDance adopts a similar strategy, making heavy investments in specific fields to ensure victory.

I Don't Think Jia Yueting is a Fraud

Hua Zong: Many people say Jia Yueting is a fraud; what do you think?

Sun Yuchen: First of all, I don't think Jia Yueting is a fraud. If he said he enjoyed personal benefits after obtaining a lot of resources instead of investing them in the company's actual operations, then he would indeed be a fraud. But I believe he is serious about his work, and he will invest resources into what he wants to do. Whether he can succeed is another matter. I know there is a lot of skepticism about him in society, especially regarding financial transparency, so I think if Jia Yueting starts a new business, financial transparency is the most important thing because the public has lost confidence in him in this regard.

Hua Zong: What is your definition of a fraud?

Sun Yuchen: I believe a real fraud is someone who quickly disappears after obtaining public funds, evading scrutiny. I know many such frauds; they quickly vanish after obtaining public funds, even faking their own deaths. But Jia Yueting is not that kind of fraud; he is someone who seriously invests in his career after obtaining resources.

Hua Zong: Is "Fake it till you make it" a fraud?

Sun Yuchen: I don't think it's a fraud. It's a strategic packaging by entrepreneurs before fully achieving their goals, but it's not malicious deception. Real frauds are those who have no possibility of achieving their goals but are still raising funds. There are many such companies in Silicon Valley that propose unverified ideas to attract investors. I think this is different from the internet venture capital environment, where internet venture capital is more about transforming existing ideas.

Unintentionally Pulling Jia Yueting into the Crypto Space, Just Wanting to Hand Him a Bottle of Water

Hua Zong: Jia Yueting spent 50 million to make an elephant model; what do you think?

Sun Yuchen: This is also a resource allocation issue. Jia Yueting spent 50 million to create a very beautiful elephant model, but it did not translate into actual commercial value. This is like an entrepreneur's failure in resource allocation; even though the money was not wasted on enjoyment, it did not achieve success in business.

Hua Zong: Are you trying to pull Jia Yueting into the crypto space?

Sun Yuchen: I am not trying to pull him into the crypto space. The reason I support him is that I think he has potential, but that does not mean I want to pull him into the crypto space. I hope he can rebuild public trust through financial transparency, as that is key to his success.

Hua Zong: What do you think your purpose in supporting Jia Yueting is?

Sun Yuchen: I just think he has potential, and I hope to help him rebuild trust. It's like a climber who is about to give up; I hand him a bottle of water, hoping he can continue.

Hua Zong: How do you view the current competition in the automotive sector?

Sun Yuchen: The competition in the automotive sector is very fierce now; only Tesla, BYD, and Huawei have a chance of surviving. Other companies are facing significant challenges.

Hua Zong: How do you think Jia Yueting should respond to this situation?

Sun Yuchen: I think it's definitely too late for Jia Yueting to make cars now; this is something anyone can understand. He should learn from Lao Luo, adopting a light asset, light team, and light operation model. Lao Luo made money through live streaming IP to pay off debts; although it's only 600 million, it's at least an attempt. Jia Yueting may be too late to make cars; he should consider transforming, disposing of the car business, and entering other fields.

My Idol is a Combination of CZ and Vitalik

Hua Zong: Who do you think your idol is?

Sun Yuchen: I think my idol is a combination of CZ and Vitalik; they are both people who have achieved great success in the blockchain field. I hope to be like them, focusing on my career and continuously innovating.

Everything Makes Way for Work

Hua Zong: What is your philosophy regarding work and life?

Sun Yuchen: Everything in my life can make way for work. I think at this stage, work is the only important thing; everything else can be sacrificed for it. I am like a professional athlete, repeating training every day in pursuit of the best state.

The "Kite Flower Classic" is a Metaphor for Sacrifice

Hua Zong: A more pressing question: we know that Teacher Yue Buqun was willing to practice the Kite Flower Classic to become the leader of the martial arts world. He was willing to pay any price to achieve that goal. Would you make the same choice?

Sun Yuchen: I think there is no such Kite Flower Classic in the blockchain field; there is no shortcut as the public understands it. I don't think one necessarily has to castrate themselves to master extraordinary skills. However, to some extent, if we consider it a metaphor for sacrifice, I agree.

In fact, saying one has to castrate themselves is a bit abstract, but I think what I am doing in the blockchain field is indeed the only thing I am doing and the only thing I am willing to do.

Harvesters, Arbitrageurs, Traders, Astronauts

Hua Zong: Do you prefer to be called a harvester, arbitrageur, trader, or astronaut?

Sun Yuchen: I prefer to be called an astronaut. Next is trader, then arbitrageur, and lastly harvester. I think astronaut represents exploration and adventure, trader represents a deep understanding and operation of the market, arbitrageur is about finding opportunities in the market, while harvester carries a negative connotation, which I don't like.

I think the biggest problem with the term harvester is that it implies a zero-sum game in the blockchain industry. From my personal perspective, as a practitioner in this industry, I believe there is a deeper value; I firmly believe that our industry should exist and has value, almost like a religion.

Hua Zong: However, the most criticism you receive as a harvester and arbitrageur comes from within the industry. Every time you pump the market, every time you stand on stage, every time you do something, you profit immensely, while a lot of people get wiped out.

Sun Yuchen: I don't think that's a fact. Even in terms of price, we have increased several hundred or thousands of times compared to when we first issued. I believe the vast majority of people have not been wiped out; in fact, many have profited immensely.

Secondly, I don't think we have profited immensely. The market is highly complex, and it's not like everyone imagines, where a poker player wins 10 million dollars in one hand and just walks away.

We are always at the table, so there is actually a strong sense of urgency.

A few days ago, I tweeted that I am also a very ordinary participant. Perhaps we are a bit smarter than other participants, but we do not have the ability to transcend other participants.

Still using the poker analogy, even if I am the king of poker today, winning the tournament while everyone else loses and the money is all with me.

But from my perspective, the reason I can win the tournament is that I have calculated every hand and tried to make the optimal choice.

Of course, some people may lose and can't afford to lose, so they will say you must have cheated to win, that the cards were arranged. I can understand that, because losing money is certainly unpleasant, but first of all, it is impossible to cheat, and we do not have the ability to cheat.

To some extent, I think when others criticize you, they are actually overestimating you. The reason is that I personally do not believe I can have any impact on the market.

We may at most be a trendsetter, but it is difficult for us to define the trend itself. I also want to know where the next wave of the industry is, what is the most profitable thing to trade, but these things are essentially as complex as predicting the weather, with many factors leading to these occurrences.

I Don't Think It's Ruthless, But Efficient

Hua Zong: Do you think this is a ruthless game in the blockchain field?

Sun Yuchen: I don't think this is a ruthless game. I believe this is a field full of opportunities and challenges, where everyone is looking for their own position and opportunity. What we need is wisdom and strategy, not ruthlessness.

Ducks, Chickens, and Peacocks

Hua Zong: In 2018, you had a conversation at Hupan that had a significant impact on me, where you mentioned a theory about chickens and ducks. Did you decide at that time to recognize your own situation and resolve to be a duck?

Sun Yuchen: You can check out my latest Douyin; there is a little peacock at my home. The little peacock actually looks very ugly, but we all know that when peacocks grow up, they are very beautiful and charming. So that video is quite fitting; it was drenched in rain, looking not only like a wild chicken but the most miserable kind of wild chicken, with feathers mixed with mud, pitifully eating a bit of rice. So I said that many people might only be able to recognize a peacock at a glance, while 99% of the public cannot see the difference.

So I think as an entrepreneur, it is very important to have a deep understanding of your industry and your unique value, and to persist in your framework because you inherently possess unique value.

When I first started my business in 2012, I may not have understood the unique value of our industry very well. It was around 2016 or 2017, after about five years of trial and error, that I began to realize the value of our industry to some extent.

The Impact of Vitalik Founding Ethereum

Hua Zong: Was Vitalik's founding of Ethereum a decisive moment for you?

Sun Yuchen: I think Vitalik's launch of Ethereum was indeed an important moment for me. Seeing him so young able to create such an influential project gave me a lot of inspiration and motivation.

I think to a greater extent, it was a bit like Siddhartha's enlightenment.

Siddhartha was once a prince who wanted to maintain his lifestyle, but one day he suddenly realized that he was actually a Buddha, and his priority became to help the Dharma itself.

I had a similar enlightenment in 2016 and 2017, realizing that our industry is like a science that operates on its own, and I should devote all my time and energy to it. For example, the public is very concerned about Wang Xiaochuan's views on me, but in reality, he has no decisive influence on our industry. Our main task is to do well in the matters of the industry itself.

Sometimes I Feel Like a Astrophysicist

Hua Zong: It sounds like entrepreneurship is like a highway. Do you feel that this highway is already crowded, with many toll booths, so you might as well build a new one and become the toll collector?

Sun Yuchen: I think it's more like humanity didn't have astrophysics before. At first, you might just be an ordinary physicist who happens to be interested in exploring the intersection of physics and astronomy, so you start exploring astrophysics.

After exploring for a long enough time, you find that astrophysics can become an independent discipline, and it may even produce many phenomena that are not accepted by the public. For example, you discover that the Earth revolves around the Sun, not the other way around. This conclusion can lead to a lot of trouble, but you must express these views.

Even if you falsely claim that the Sun revolves around the Earth, other astrophysicists will find this to be incorrect because it does not match experimental observation data. Our current work is to collect more data and present the facts clearly to everyone. This can better define my work; to some extent, I am beginning to explore blockchain, discovering many things, and then presenting these discoveries.

I Don't Want to Be Burned Like Bruno

Sun Yuchen: Of course, to some extent, I am also a more strategic physicist. I believe that the relationship with regulators and the public is very important. Bruno directly provoked the public, leading to his being burned, which is not a good way to handle the relationship between science and the public. Therefore, I think the opinions of regulators and the public are very important; we try to ensure that development aligns with regulatory and public interests, helping everyone understand that it is harmless. Including if regulators and the public have any demands, we will cooperate to make it as harmless as possible.

Disputes with the SEC - How to Regulate Whales

Sun Yuchen: Many people think we don't want to be regulated. First of all, we have never had the attitude of not wanting to be regulated. We believe that good regulation also needs to be debated. For example, the SEC says whales are also fish and should be included in the fish management regulations, but we tell the SEC that whales are mammals, not fish. We believe a better approach is to have them managed by a whale protection association or whale association, rather than lazily including them in fish management.

Hua Zong: From a regulatory perspective, both you and CZ have established your territories. Now that CZ is involved in this matter, will it put pressure on you?

Sun Yuchen: In the eyes of the fish protection association, whales are indeed a bit territorial. The whales say they are mammals and do not fall under your jurisdiction. The fish management association says, "I think whales look quite like fish, and sometimes you do swim with fish, right?"

So the message we have always wanted to convey to regulators is that we are willing to accept regulation. However, from various interests, we all need new regulations because a new regulatory model is more suitable for the development of our industry. If our industry develops well, it will also bring huge benefits to the public and regulators.

Secondly, we also feel that we need regulators who understand our industry better. For example, the current issue is that the people in the fish association usually only manage fishing and do not care about whale protection. They do not understand the habits of mammals and only apply the fish protection model, ignoring what whales want. So I think this is also a regulatory issue.

My Situation is Different from CZ's; Everything Can Be Discussed

Hua Zong: Do you feel that your situation is somewhat similar to Binance's?

Sun Yuchen: I think there are similarities.

Hua Zong: If regulators offered you a deal similar to CZ's, would you accept it?

Sun Yuchen: Our situation is not particularly the same as CZ's. I believe as long as it can help our industry develop better, there is nothing that cannot be discussed. Many people are also worried that we founders may have gained a lot of control in the early development of cryptocurrencies. I think this control can also be discussed. We also know that we are operating financial infrastructure, and regulators are very concerned about control, so I think to some extent, there is nothing that cannot be discussed. I even think that holding many things in our hands can be dangerous.

The Origin of "Making Money is the Only Measure of Success"

Hua Zong: Ma Jiajia said that the amount of money earned is the only standard by which Sun Yuchen measures success. You have no other hobbies, right?

Sun Yuchen: First of all, there are a few inaccuracies. First, it was not Ma Jiajia who said it; it was I who said it. This statement actually has a context; it was during a television program when the host interviewed me. I proposed this viewpoint, and of course, Liu Chuanzi also raised this point, that entrepreneurs are also scientists. Many people often view business as something anyone can do without specialized training or learning.

Liu Chuanzi said that the initiative of entrepreneurs is as important as that of scientists, and the creative management ability of entrepreneurs is also worthy of protection. At that time, the host asked me if there is a similar standard for measuring entrepreneurs like athletes.

I said, of course, there is. At that time, I proposed a standard, saying that the measure for entrepreneurs is how much money they earn and how effective they are.

If a business earns a lot of money, then it is a good business, and these entrepreneurs should be protected and supported just like scientists. If they do poorly, the losses can be very serious.

So this was a measure I proposed when the host asked me about our field.

Running a Company is My Only Hobby

Hua Zong: Do you have any other hobbies or interests?**

Sun Yuchen: Running a company is my only hobby. I have a tremendous passion for entrepreneurship and business, and I invest almost all my time and energy into it. Although I sometimes feel exhausted, seeing the company grow and achieve success makes all the effort worthwhile.

SBF Set the Industry Back Five Years by Himself

Hua Zong: What do you think about SBF's impact on the industry?**

Sun Yuchen: I think SBF set the industry back five to ten years by himself. His failure not only caused a huge blow to himself but also had a negative impact on the entire industry. The public distrust and regulatory distrust he caused, as well as all the future costs of explanation, we may have to work twice as hard to make up for.

Since I Became a Fish, I'm Not Afraid of Being Twisted

Hua Zong: The next question is also quite aggressive. Some people say that your current struggles stem from an unhappy childhood.**

Sun Yuchen: Actually, I don't think I'm struggling anymore. I think the time when I struggled the most was from 2012 to 2017. During that time, I felt the most twisted because my worldview was not solid enough.

Hua Zong: Now it's solid enough, right?**

Sun Yuchen: Yes, now I feel that the main worldview is the entire set of development models, standards, and everything that has formed in our industry. I still use the example of an astrophysicist; at first, we didn't have a discipline called astrophysics. I was just interested in astronomical observations, so I stumbled into this field. I think astrophysics has great prospects because there are so many inventions and discoveries; it's very enticing and fun. But on the other hand, many negative feedbacks it presents make me feel unbearable. So at that time, I was the most twisted.

Perhaps after 2017, the point of struggle was like the moment of enlightenment we just talked about. I discovered the independent value of what I was doing.

Hua Zong: Was this before or after 1994?

Sun Yuchen: Before 1994. I think 1994 was just a feedback for this thing. Perhaps after 2017, I dedicated myself entirely to astrophysics. I wondered how to do astrophysics.

Hua Zong: Simply put, you stripped off your clothes and plunged into the ocean of the crypto world?**

Sun Yuchen: You could understand it that way. And during those five years of struggle, you would worry about whether diving into the ocean of cryptocurrencies would lead to overheating or freezing, or whether you would drown before reaching the shore.

Hua Zong: You no longer think about getting ashore because you feel you are a fish?**

Sun Yuchen: Yes. You are absolutely right. So 2017 was indeed a very important time point. From that time on, I completely understood. If others have many misunderstandings about this matter or cannot support us, in my view, it actually does not affect me anymore because I am a fish. In the sea, I have to swim; if others drain the water in this place, I can only swim to another place. The enlightenment or gradual growth I experienced in 2017 removed that twisted feeling. Therefore, I feel that the choices I made after 2017 are no longer difficult because I have clarified my direction.

Actually, I Am Ruan Xiaoqi

Hua Zong: In a previous interview, you made an interesting statement that you are Liu Bang, EOS is Xiang Yu, and Ethereum is the Qin Dynasty. You said you would first eliminate EOS and then divide the world. Do you still have this idea?**

Sun Yuchen: I no longer have this idea. Because back in 2017, our industry was still quite crowded, and there were only a few visible friends.

At that time, our industry was very small; perhaps Ethereum's market value was only a few hundred billion dollars. Now the potential in this field has been terrifyingly released; stablecoins are also in the trillions, and protocol layers are also in the trillions.

In this context, we realize that we are very small. Our development cannot keep up with the rapid changes in our industry.

Now we follow the trend of the industry, observe how the industry develops, and then take stock of the resources our company has at hand, what we are good at, what we can do, and how to apply it well to push the industry forward. That is already very good.

I made a fun analogy: I am like Ruan Xiaoqi from "Water Margin." In "Water Margin," everyone was fighting for the world, which was very interesting, and in the end, only Ruan Xiaoqi ran to the area of Vietnam and Thailand to become a king. In fact, Ruan Xiaoqi is very interesting; he has already jumped out of the entire novel of "Water Margin."

Passport and Nationality

Hua Zong: Which country's passport do you hold now?**

Sun Yuchen: I currently hold a passport from a Caribbean country.

Hua Zong: Our country does not recognize dual nationality. Do you need to pay 250 yuan and fill out a form?**

Sun Yuchen: I haven't filled it out yet because I think some policies will change. I believe maintaining the status quo is best for me right now.

Money and Freedom

Hua Zong: Earning money is particularly easy for you now. Does having money make you freer or less free? Compared to 2017 and 2018, do you feel freer or less free?**

Sun Yuchen: First of all, I think making money is an indicator of business development, but my definition of making money may not completely align with public perception. Money is more like a score in this field; if you do well, you get a high score, and if you do poorly, you get a low score. Of course, we care about this score, but it does not bring more enjoyment.

I feel that the more money I make, the less free I become. It's easy to understand because the more money you make, the larger the scale. Many things, whether from regulators or the public, are not a big deal when the amounts involved are not large. However, if the amounts are large enough, others may have to modify laws or regulatory provisions to some extent to regulate it.

From their perspective, it is also to protect their interests. For example, the many troubles and controversies TikTok has caused in the U.S. are primarily because it has grown too large.

I Originally Wanted to Be a Lawyer

Hua Zong: Have you ever thought about another possibility in life? If you left the crypto market, what would you do?**

Sun Yuchen: Actually, before entering the cryptocurrency space, I planned to become a lawyer. I felt that many liberal arts students in the U.S. chose to pursue a JD after completing their master's degrees because it offers high and stable income. I had already completed the JD exam and was preparing to practice law in New York.

Friends Who Would Risk Their Lives for You

Hua Zong: Do you have a best friend?**

Sun Yuchen: I have a few best friends.

Hua Zong: A few? I can hardly believe it because you sound like a particularly reclusive tyrant, a cold-blooded trader.**

Sun Yuchen: I do have a few friends, but I want to explain my definition of friends: "In a group of three, there must be my teacher." Each person has a particularly professional side in their field.

Hua Zong: Is this how you find friends?**

Sun Yuchen: I think this is a kind of friendship. I believe I will encounter many people in areas where I am not good or knowledgeable.

Hua Zong: Do you have any friends with whom you would risk your life, someone you could show your back to?**

Sun Yuchen: Yes, I believe I do.

Hua Zong: Shocked! I want to ask if there are people you care about besides yourself?**

Sun Yuchen: There are people I care about. I can say that I care more about the industry, the company, and the things I do than I do about myself.

As I approach ten years of entrepreneurship, since 2022, I have had a strong feeling that I no longer care as much about myself. The reason is that I feel the meaning attached to me has far surpassed my personal self.

One is the significance of our industry and the meaning it attaches to me, so I actually no longer care about many of my gains and losses. Didn't Zong Qinghou also say that for an entrepreneur who earns more than one million RMB, it actually has nothing to do with him? Because he may only eat takeout every day, and living in a house and paying rent cannot exceed one million RMB. The money beyond one million RMB is actually unrelated to him and has little to do with the entrepreneur. So I feel I have this sense; beyond this money, it doesn't mean much to me, but it is very significant for the industry and what we are doing.

Interesting Stories About Coconut Chicken

Hua Zong: Do you still eat coconut chicken? Is the legend about coconut chicken true?**

Sun Yuchen: Eating coconut chicken is true. As for whether I would scoop some for myself first from a big pot, I honestly don't remember. And if there really was such a scene, it would be quite normal; I think girls tend to be more delicate in their thoughts.

You know, if we go out for a meal with our girlfriend, you definitely won't remember what happened during that meal when you come back.

Hua Zong: I have an additional question. If you were to rate your IQ and EQ on a scale of 0 to 10, what score would you give yourself?**

Sun Yuchen: I would give myself a score of 7 for IQ and 8 for EQ.

Hua Zong: You even scooped coconut chicken and still have an 8?**

Sun Yuchen: I think my EQ is a bit low when it comes to interactions with the opposite sex. I believe my EQ is quite good when facing regulators and the public.

Hua Zong: Is this a kind of cunning?**

Sun Yuchen: I wouldn't call it cunning; I think it's more strategic. Because I have seen too many entrepreneurs in our industry whose business is doing well, but they lack strategy in this regard. I think, to some extent, they pay a much heavier price than their actions suggest.