Exclusive Interview with Zhao Changpeng: Life is Like a Card Game, Only Moving Forward; Now More Focused on Talent, Time, and Health

Guest: Changpeng Zhao, Founder of Binance

Host: Anthony Pompliano

Podcast Source: Anthony Pompliano, ++The Pomp Podcast++

Original Title: The King of Crypto: CZ's Rapid Rise

Compiled by: Lenaxin, ChainCatcher

Broadcast Date: July 2, 2025

ChainCatcher Editor's Summary:

In this exclusive interview on The Pomp Podcast, Anthony Pompliano engages in a deep conversation with Binance founder and former CEO Changpeng Zhao, reflecting on his growth journey, entrepreneurial story, and experiences with imprisonment. With unwavering belief and a forward-looking perspective, Zhao bet on Bitcoin in 2013, navigating the market's highs and lows, ultimately founding Binance and leading his team to overcome multiple challenges, including regulation, technology, and hacking, achieving a profit of $1 billion in the first year.

In the face of legal turmoil, he chose to take responsibility, demonstrating extraordinary resilience and a sense of duty. The interview also delves into the relationship between Binance and the U.S. market, as well as future trends in the crypto industry, emphasizing that beyond wealth, talent, time, and health are the most valuable resources.

This dialogue focuses on three core dimensions: the founder's strategic thinking, practical experience in dealing with regulatory challenges, and profound insights into the future of the industry. Zhao encourages everyone to move forward and make the best choices with the philosophy that "life is like a card game."

ChainCatcher has organized and compiled the content.

Highlights of Key Points

• Unwavering belief and forward-looking perspective are key to entrepreneurial success.
• A comprehensive understanding of technology, pricing, and market environment aids in quickly grasping Bitcoin's value.
• When I first encountered Bitcoin in 2013-2014, I realized that the impact of this technology would surpass that of the internet.
• Transparency and quick responses can turn crises into opportunities.
• Funding is no longer a limitation; talent, time, and health are the three most scarce resources.
• Avoiding justice will make one an international fugitive, endangering the company and the industry; facing responsibility is the responsible choice.
• The new U.S. government is more rational in crypto regulation, balancing innovation incentives and consumer protection.
• Mainstream crypto assets in the U.S. are entering the traditional financial system through ETFs, leading global trends.
• U.S. exchange fees are 10-20 times higher than the international market, with limited product choices; Binance is willing to cooperate gradually.
• Life is like a card game; one can only move forward and make the best choice based on existing conditions.

(1) The Journey of a Rural Boy's Rise

Anthony Pompliano: Can you talk about your childhood experiences?

Changpeng Zhao: I was born in a rural area of China, where there was no electricity or running water, and I often studied under a kerosene lamp. I moved to a small city before the age of 12, and then immigrated to Canada. In Vancouver, my father took the professor qualification exam, and my mother worked in a sewing factory, earning close to minimum wage. I saw them work tirelessly for our family from a young age.

This experience taught me to be frugal and not extravagant, but to work hard. My mother used to walk 300 meters every day to fetch water; now that life has changed, I understand the importance of cherishing what we have.

Anthony Pompliano: Moving from a rural area in China to a small city, and then suddenly entering a highly developed Canada, must have brought a huge cultural shock?

Changpeng Zhao: When I first arrived in Canada, my father's friend picked us up from the airport, and that was my first time in a private car. A few days later, my father bought a second-hand car for 400 Canadian dollars, and we were all very excited.

Life in Canada was safe, the environment was good, and the academic pressure was light. I had time to practice English and play volleyball; I played for four years in high school and was the captain in the last four years. Although my grades were average, the relationship between teachers and students was harmonious. The school was small, and the atmosphere was close-knit.

This experience shaped many of my good habits, and to this day, I am grateful for that time.

Anthony Pompliano: What impact did the gap in educational intensity and teaching methods have on you?

Changpeng Zhao: At McGill University, I interned every summer, working in software development and participating in the construction of the Tokyo Stock Exchange system. A project delay caused me to take a break from school, which made me realize that practical experience is more important than a degree.

During the internet bubble, the company was acquired, and I relied on remote courses to make up credits. This experience taught me to find opportunities in crises.

After 9/11, I joined Bloomberg's New York office, getting promoted three times in four years, leading a team of 80 to develop a futures system. As the youngest executive and the only Asian, I achieved results but also saw the ceiling for promotions.

In 2005, I founded Fusion Systems in Shanghai, expanding to Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Los Angeles within eight years, with over 200 employees and profitability, which also honed my skills in multinational management.

I encountered Bitcoin in 2013, and although the company did not support it, I decided to fully invest and embark on a new journey.

These experiences shifted my focus from valuing degrees to valuing practical experience, making me better at finding breakthroughs in change and solidifying my determination to engage in new fields, deepening my understanding of technology and business.

(2) CZ's Crypto Journey

Anthony Pompliano: Why did you choose to engage in cryptocurrency? What role does Bitcoin play globally, and what is its potential for future development?

Changpeng Zhao: To succeed in entrepreneurship, one must have unwavering belief and a forward-looking perspective.

When I encountered Bitcoin in 2013, I immediately realized its potential impact could surpass that of the internet. At that time, I was 35 years old and decided to fully invest in the crypto field.

It can not only reshape the monetary system but also revolutionize all systems that require verification. Traditional databases cannot provide trustworthy verification, while blockchain can.

The financial applications of crypto technology are just beginning. I believe this is a technological revolution that cannot be missed; similar opportunities may not arise again for another 10 to 15 years. It is this belief that supports our continuous advancement of the platform.

Anthony Pompliano: When you first encountered Bitcoin, which dimension—technical characteristics, price trends, or market environment—led you to instantly determine that it would disrupt the world?

Changpeng Zhao: My background made it easier for me to understand cryptocurrencies. Living in multiple countries made me experience the limitations of traditional cross-border payments and realize the value of a borderless currency.

My technical background allowed me to understand Bitcoin's cryptographic mechanisms, while my financial experience helped me see its transformative potential.

When I encountered the community in 2013, these experiences came together, enabling me to quickly recognize Bitcoin's value. My global perspective also helped me break free from regional thinking and firmly commit to this industry.

Anthony Pompliano: What specific first steps did you take when you entered the Bitcoin industry?

Changpeng Zhao: I encountered Bitcoin in July 2013 when the price was $70. After studying for six months, it rose to $1,000, and I decided to sell my house to buy in batches, with an average price of about $600.

Then the market fell, and Bitcoin dropped to $200, lasting for 18 months. I lost two-thirds of my investment on paper. My family's reactions varied; my mother especially did not understand why I gave up a high salary at Bloomberg, but I stood by my decision.

In 2016, when the People's Bank of China began publicly discussing blockchain, the market warmed up. After experiencing a complete bull and bear cycle, I became better equipped to handle the volatility of the crypto market.

Anthony Pompliano: When did you conceive the idea of creating Binance? Was the initial team formation a well-thought-out plan or a natural development?

Changpeng Zhao: As early as 2013, we wanted to build an exchange, but we lacked experience. After the collapse of Mt. Gox in Japan in 2014, I tried to establish a Bitcoin exchange in Japan, but venture capitalists suggested we pivot to exchange technology services.

We developed a trading system, primarily providing order matching for clients like the China Stamp Exchange, signing over 30 B2B clients. In early 2017, policy changes led to a halt in client business, and we decided to build our own exchange, with a team of 25 technical staff.

During the ICO boom in 2017, we seized the market gap and were the first to support ERC-20 token trading. At the same time, we improved customer service standards, reducing response times from the industry norm of two months to within one hour. These innovations propelled Binance's rapid growth.

(3) How Does Binance Sail Forward?

Anthony Pompliano: During Binance's early rapid growth, how did you respond to the emotions brought on by market volatility? Having experienced the frenzy and crash of cryptocurrencies, what impact did this experience have on you?

Changpeng Zhao: Binance was established in July 2017 and grew rapidly. Changes in Chinese policy forced us to move our 30-person team to Tokyo within six weeks. Unable to access fiat channels, we focused on cryptocurrency trading, unexpectedly attracting a niche global user base.

The growth was astonishing: we entered the top ten in two months, the top five in four months, and reached the top in trading volume in five months. Bitcoin rose from $3,000 to $19,000 during the same period. The system was under immense pressure, and the team worked around the clock, adding 200,000 users per hour at peak times.

The market correction in early 2018 gave us time to adjust. Binance became profitable from the third month onward, and even when Bitcoin dropped to $6,000, we were not affected. This experience accumulated important lessons.

Anthony Pompliano: What was the scale of Binance's profitability in its first year?

Changpeng Zhao: Binance's first-year profit was about $1 billion, possibly the fastest case of a startup achieving over $100 million in annual profit. Most of the profits were concentrated in the third to eighth months of operation, during the peak trading period. While some startups reached a $1 billion valuation faster and were acquired, in terms of profitability scale, Binance may be the fastest to achieve $1 billion in net profit.

Anthony Pompliano: When Binance faced a hacking attack in 2018 or 2019, how did the team respond? Although Binance achieved over $100 million in profit in its first year, did it also face challenges like other companies?

Changpeng Zhao: In May 2019, Binance suffered a hacking attack, losing 7,000 Bitcoins (worth about $40 million at the time). We immediately took several key measures:

• Suspended withdrawals for a week but maintained trading functionality to stabilize the market.
• Conducted a live AMA as planned within hours of the incident.
• Established a Twitter update mechanism every two hours.
• Implemented a proof of reserves system for the first time.
• Used our entire monthly revenue to cover the losses.

Data after the incident showed that within a week of resuming withdrawals, net deposits exceeded withdrawals, and user confidence increased rather than decreased. This event became a significant turning point for trust, demonstrating that transparency and quick responses can turn crises into opportunities.

Anthony Pompliano: As we entered 2020, Binance recovered from the hacking incident and accumulated experience. After the pandemic, what new significant changes occurred in the crypto industry from 2020 to 2021?

Changpeng Zhao: Just before the market warmed up in 2020, when Bitcoin had dropped to $3,000 in 2019, Binance launched Launchpad and improved its system. In 2021, we saw explosive growth, with users increasing from 20 million to 120 million, and Bitcoin surpassing $60,000. Although we faced operational pressures, the mature team handled it well, and Binance transitioned to become a mainstream player in the industry.

In the hot market of 2021, the SEC sued Binance US, Binance, and myself, accusing us of misappropriating customer funds and freezing all assets. The $250 million loan I provided to Binance US was also frozen, and the case was recently dismissed before it was unfrozen.

(4) From Financial Loss to Legal Storm: CZ's Fight for Survival

Anthony Pompliano: Can you provide a complete explanation of the specific accusations from regulators against Binance, the focal points of the disputes, and the final outcomes?

Changpeng Zhao: In November 2022, the FTX incident triggered a crisis of trust in centralized exchanges. In December, Binance faced $14 billion in outflows, with a peak of $7 billion in a single day, but still fully honored withdrawals. In January 2023, the SEC accused Binance of misappropriating user funds without providing substantial evidence. The lawsuit caused Binance's market share in the U.S. to drop from 35% of Coinbase to 1%, mainly due to the disruption of banking channels.

Subsequently, the DOJ intervened in the investigation, ultimately reaching an agreement for violating the Bank Secrecy Act. This was the first case in U.S. judicial history where someone was sentenced without fraud charges or prior convictions. I cooperated with the investigation and served four months in prison. During this time, Binance maintained operational transparency and continued to function normally.

Anthony Pompliano: When the regulatory storm first arose, you proactively went to the U.S. to cooperate with the investigation, contrasting with Marc Rich's choice to flee to Switzerland to avoid charges. How do you view these two approaches?

Changpeng Zhao: I referenced financial cases like Michael Milken's and decided to proactively go to the U.S. to cooperate with the investigation. This was a difficult choice: to evade and become an international fugitive, endangering the company and the industry, or to face justice and take responsibility.

While I could have chosen to seek refuge in a country without an extradition treaty, I felt that evasion was not right. Even considering imprisonment, given that I had resigned as CEO and paid fines, the sentence would not be too long.

I believe facing the situation is the responsible choice for users and the industry, far superior to evasion.

Anthony Pompliano: Transitioning from leading a billion-dollar profitable Binance to sharing a cell with a double murderer, what impact did this extreme change in circumstances have on you?

Changpeng Zhao: As a non-U.S. citizen, I was held in a low-security prison, managed by ethnicity, grouped with Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Native Americans. My cellmate was a double murderer who had his sentence reduced from 30 years to 18 years for good behavior.

Before my imprisonment, the media suggested I might become "the richest prisoner in U.S. history," raising concerns about extortion. However, during my time in prison, most inmates were not interested in financial news, and there were no safety issues. Although my cellmate had a history of violence, our daily interactions were relatively peaceful; the only trouble was his severe snoring.

Anthony Pompliano: The U.S. has precedents for pardoning drug and white-collar crimes; have you considered applying for a presidential pardon? What are your thoughts on this process?

Changpeng Zhao: I do not rule out the possibility of a pardon, especially since the case may involve political factors—like Elizabeth Warren calling for stricter crypto regulation just five days before my sentencing. However, the pardon process falls within the legal realm, and I prefer not to comment further.

Anthony Pompliano: While you acknowledge the charges and believe in the judicial system, do you think there are elements of "legal warfare" in the investigation and prosecution against you?

Changpeng Zhao: Regarding the SEC lawsuit, I believe this is a typical case of legal warfare. The case was "dismissed with bias," reflecting the new government's more rational approach to crypto regulation, balancing innovation and protection. Compared to the criminal charges against Trump for carrying documents into a bathroom, the enforcement standards are clearly different.

While the definition of legal warfare is subjective, the previous administration was clearly hostile towards crypto, whereas the current government is more professional and understands fintech better. In terms of my personal case, the elements of legal warfare are evident.

(5) Talent, Time, and Health

Anthony Pompliano: Can you openly discuss your wealth situation? Wealth is a measure of success, and people want to know how successful you are.

Changpeng Zhao: Funding is no longer a limitation for me; it is a tool for creating social value. I value the truly scarce resources: talent, time, and health.

The crypto industry is at a critical turning point. U.S. policies are leading global trends, with mainstream crypto assets entering traditional finance through ETFs. The integration of AI and blockchain is deepening, with government-level applications like decentralized identity verification being promoted globally.

Although our participation is limited, we hope to assist the U.S. in building a crypto economic center. Recent policy changes demonstrate the flexibility of institutional innovation. As major economies lead development, blockchain will break through finance and reconstruct broader value.

Anthony Pompliano: As the world's largest crypto exchange, Binance has not entered the U.S. market. What are your thoughts on the potential for cooperation between both sides as the U.S. aims to become a crypto hub?

Changpeng Zhao: We have always hoped to enter the U.S. market. Currently, the fees charged by U.S. exchanges are 10-20 times higher than those in the international market, and product choices are more limited. This sharply contrasts with the U.S.'s low-price advantages in e-commerce and other fields. We are willing to contribute to this, but we must follow the existing regulatory framework gradually.

Anthony Pompliano: After experiencing challenges such as exchange hacks and legal disputes, what keeps you resilient in moving forward?

Changpeng Zhao: Life is like a card game; one can only move forward.

Disclaimer

The content of this article does not represent the views of ChainCatcher. The opinions, data, and conclusions in the text represent the personal stance of the original author or interviewee. The compiler maintains a neutral stance and does not endorse their accuracy. This does not constitute any advice or guidance in any professional field; readers should exercise caution based on independent judgment. This compilation is for knowledge-sharing purposes only; readers should strictly adhere to the laws and regulations of their respective regions and refrain from engaging in any illegal financial activities.